Quinn (they/he):
To start, can we just go around and Introduce ourselves, our names, pronouns and artistic and creative practices and projects?
Jason (they/he):
Sure. I use they/he pronouns. I am a senior, at Tisch Drama at NYU and I am a playwright, I’m an actor, voice actor and creative leader of interactive, immersive and experimental projects, video games too.
Anisha (she/her):
I figured. Awesome.
Sally (they/she/he):
My name’s Sally. I use they/she/he pronouns in that order of preference. I mainly illustrate and write poetry, but I also dabble in sculpture work and animation. I mostly make work about identity, home nostalgia, intimacy, and fantasy. And I’m a senior at Parsons School of Design, majoring in illustration and minoring in psychology.
Anisha (she/her):
Oh my God. I was a psych major. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. To kick it off, well, we just kicked it off, but to kick it off again, we just want to know, how did you guys meet, how did you guys start collaborating and what were your various roles in making untitled gamer play? We can break that up since I know it’s a loaded question and I always forget part twos!
Jason (they/he):
Sally how did we meet?
Sally (they/she/he):
We met in our high school Japanese class and in junior year when we got assigned to be partners, we also became best friends and started dating. We started collaborating because we had to at first, because of Japanese projects and stuff like that…but you put two artists together and you constantly want to keep working on things together or be each other’s partner in crime or whatever. And I always joke that they’ve been my muse for like five years now. My role in untitled gamer play or UGP (however you want to say it) was at first just as a cover artist/event artist, but then after I finished my thesis, Jason reached out to me again and was like, “I heard you have free time. Do you want to be my codesigner?” That’s what I helped do co-set designer and co-set paint.
Anisha (she/her):
Nice. Nice. The sets were beautiful. Just throw that out there. I saw a clip of the video. It was really good.
Jason (they/he):
I wouldn’t call Japanese exercises collaboration, but I think we started … Wait. It is. we started collaborating in a real collaborator sense, I guess a little bit later when I decided to pursue art going into my second year of college diving right in there. And it’s just like whenever a project would pop up, for example, like rank choice dating popped up last September and it would be like an opportune time to bring Sally on. I brought Sally on about it and of course the muse part is definitely true for both of us of a lot of the art we make, I guess, is inspired by each other’s lives and the lives in our community and can’t wait to chat more on that. I am the writer of untitled gamer play and I’ve been, I guess I started writing this in my first year at NYU, which is like two and a half years ago. I wrote like a 10 page version of this as well as several other like 10 page plays that eventually …
The first version of this was just about “Oh, Gamer’s toxic.” And it was just a bunch of gamers in a room bantering and the one eager in their group that they were trying to woo, which did not end well. And then it eventually turned into this after many, many, many, many different drafts and iterations of this. And that’s where it went up.
Anisha (she/her):
That’s amazing. That is major props. Quinn, sorry. Did you have anything to say?
Quinn (they/he):
No, same. Just the script was a really amazing read. I had a great time and I had a great time watching what I could of the video that was sent too. And I also wanted to say that the set design was so beautiful and so good job both of you. I guess for the next questions, like for those who are listening and aren’t familiar with the play, can we just get a quick synopsis and also a little bit about Albert and what his character is indicative of?
Jason (they/he):
Untitled gamer play. It’s this play that revolves around Albert. He’s this 17 year old Chinese American kid who’s closeted and he’s sad and lonely. He plays video games all day to the extent that he’s paying this kid with the same first and last name as him to go to school for him and get good grades for him so he can impress his mom while also just playing video games. And he does that alongside his best friend Kevin who’s this like two or three years older, just big brother figure to him who hypes him up, cheers him along. And they go along this big adventure where Albert overcomes his fear of risks and tries to become a professional video gamer. And he does make this choice where he can’t go back by cutting ties with the guy that’s been going like ransom … Now at this point, like blackmailing him. If you don’t pay me, I won’t go to school for you and I’ll tell on you.
And he gives that up fully commits and then don’t want to spoil anything, but that choice changes how he views himself, how he views his mom and Kevin and at its core, this play is about saviors and what we do when people go out of their way to help us and we have no choice in the matter as so many of our parents do, immigrant parents do. And I wouldn’t say Albert’s character is indicative of anything. When I write, I normally just like to think of these people as real people and how would they want to their stories to be serviced and told, and reach as many people as possible.
But I think the best way I can answer this question is Albert is this amalgamation of gamers that I have met online and in-person and grown up with much, much more on that later. The naturalistic dialogue to him came really, really easy to me when he was just this huge conglomerate of just these voices that I’ve grown up with. And I hope that I’m able to service those stories and those memories of what was once just this massive part still is of my childhood.
Anisha (she/her):
Well, honestly I loved everything you said, it was very inspirational because I think I’m very big on storytelling as we all are especially at The New Absurdist and as creatives. I really just appreciate the thought and effort that you put into building out this character and really just not being like, this person symbolizes this one thing, but if it just comes to that, then that’s kind of what happens, but just letting the person be authentically.
And you touched on this a little bit so feel free to elaborate more or if you feel you answered it already. But you touched a little bit on this. Can you tell us a little bit about the process of writing this character? I know you said you pulled from some of your experience and the play in general. How did that look for you?
Jason (they/he):
Yeah. I think the process of writing this character is definitely tied in with the writing the play. This play revolves around Albert and well, it does revolve around Albert although every single character I hope has a really emotionally fulfilling arc. And I would say Albert started off as this idea of when I was in my first year playwriting class, I went like, “I have this massive part of my life that I’ve shut down in order to be here.” And whenever I look back on that gaming life, it’s like these people said slurs, these people hacked and bullied others, was there any good to these 10 years of my life that I spent online or was there anything good I could pull from that? And of course there’s a lot of bad and I had to really, really search for the humanity.
And I’m so glad that I found it because it made me be a little bit more compassionate to myself. These gamers are just really lonely kids for a lot of … And one place where this play did come out of is all the media especially in plays right now or historically is rarely about people of color with some exceptions chat out to black feminist video game. But it’s like the gaming and like D&D like table tabletop RPG setting in playwriting is dominated by white men. And no one’s really talking about how Asian games are. There are so many Asian gamers, there’s so many Asian kids and friend groups that live in these little channels on discord. And that’s how they grow up because they all want some kind of escape from their really, really tough lives.
And that escape is much, much different for them. Because they’re escaping a lot of expectations and a lot of rigorous classwork, stuff like that. And sometimes it feels like their entire family’s dreams are on their shoulders. And so when they escape that to play video games, they feel guilty. And there’s just so many parts of this that I was so grateful to find. And so the process of writing this was started out as this little exploration and then I explored many, many things about what this play could be. I think there was like a 120 page version at the beginning of last year. 1.5 years ago of where it was like this play was structured around money and enterprise of this professional league of legends esports system, where it was so much more focused on that.
Because if you think about it, esports is a cult. esports is like professional video gaming and it’s biggest in league of legends, which is where my background. League of legends is like the world’s most popular game, I guess. Don’t fact check me. It’s the most popular esport and the cults following. And there’s a lot of those professional gamers happen to be Asian. And no one really talks about that. I think where that draft started from is, oh, these gamers are Asian. Where do they come from? How do they end up here? Are they just heroes of their hometown? Do they have like these dreams? A lot of these gamers are coming from low income backgrounds and using these games that they love to support their families as opposed to all the other players who are just doing it for fun and they had their luxury for doing it for fun. And that was a whole exploration of that because in the end everyone’s competing for the white man’s dollar.
But then I circled back, found out, really explored the emotional lives of each character and ended up here much more to come many, many more edits to come. But I’m really glad that I took a step back rooted this in the people that I cared about because it was getting a really hectic and hard to control. And I think I made something really great.
Anisha (she/her):
You did. You did. I will attest to that…I second that.
Quinn (they/he):
I agree. And I also really liked finding the humanity in the gaming world. From what I understand, when you’re gaming, other people are just little voices and characters. And so extrapolating the human out of that is just so cool. For the next question, we’re wondering how..And you already touched on this too, but how Albert is relating to and exemplifying changes or lack of changes within the gaming community?
Jason (they/he):
There’s this really, really great article by my friends that I want to plug. They wrote a paper about Albert as a character. And in relation to being a gamer and the multiple identities he holds as an assignment for class. Her name is AJ, we have a playwriting class together. I think at its core, the gaming community in [untitled gamer play] is incredibly homophobic. And I think the sentence in this paper that hits me the most is…let me find it.
“Albert’s fundamental existence as a gay gamer is that his passion lives in an environment that is inherently unwelcoming to him.” This article beautifully explains that this community is degenerated and I often say gamers are the worst of people. They throw these slurs around, they have no fear of consequences because they’re often very self indulged in the fact that they’re trying to escape. For that reason, they get away with a lot. Albert is just this little kid trying to exist in this hard world that is unwelcoming to him. This play in particular, I think does capture a lot of humanity and goodness in video gaming community and it does definitely give a little bit of light, a tiny little bit of light to the bad I would say.
I think what I explored in terms of like Albert being a character and homophobia in this play was that like the bro-gamer and bro culture is often like, “Yeah, yeah bro.” How is this not gay? How has no one ever talked about this? Like being remotely suggestive of these gamers being gay. So Kevin will go off and do these really obscene things and bait Albert and lead Albert on in these sexual crude acts of humor as well as their online connection, they’ve never seen each other and yet they have this brotherhood and the way that both of their masculinities benefit from this relationship and just those two things I think are very, very key parts of this gaming community. Men will get really, really close and they will be very strangely straight. Let’s talk about that. Very long tangent feel free to cut.
Anisha (she/her):
No, no, I loved it. I loved it. I don’t know if you saw because Zoom’s a little hard, but I was getting a little emotional as you were talking about humanizing people. I think that’s so important. And honestly I’m going to be completely transparent. Prior to reading your play, I’ve had friends growing up who are very much in the gaming world and they would tell me so much about the toxicity. It was honestly really refreshing to read your play.
I was like, whoa, this is a whole other side to this world that I’m not in, but I can almost empathize with. It was just really a little jarring, but in the best way possible. And also I love the threads of homophobia that you touched on throughout the play, I think was very seamless. Thank you for that. It was very refreshing on my part, very enlightening for me as a person. And also along the lines of integrating homophobia, you also spoke about immigration and really touched on the life of immigrants. I was wondering, was there any particular reason why you chose to incorporate this? How does it relate to gaming and how does it relate to the gaming world in general? I know that’s a loaded question-
Jason (they/he):
Definitely.
Anisha (she/her):
-so take it in parts if you have to.
Jason (they/he):
I have many answers. Don’t worry.
Anisha (she/her):
Excited.
Jason (they/he):
This definitely came, like I said, came from like the fact that so many of these professional gamers are Asian gamers and children of immigrants. For part of my visual research I took these pictures of pro gamers when they entered the scene, like in 2013-2014. They have bull cuts, they have glasses, they’re fucking ugly. But then give them five or six, seven years as they come into massive amounts of wealth and they support their families and they completely change.
There’s this story of one of one very controversial gaming in figure. But I do look up to him. His name is Doublelift in the League of Legends Community. He entered this scene really early, in 2012, he was really, really poor and he was playing this game to support his family to which he had a very strange relationship with. His mother gave him up because he was playing video games and he had to live in this journalist friend’s apartment for many, many years because his parents kicked him out, but he still had this dream.
He still plays this game. He’s very controversial because he is toxic, but he still plays this game a lot. And in, I believe that around 2017, 2018, his mom died. His mom was murdered by his brother. That was heartbreaking because we followed his life and he’s talked about his family. Around that time he reconnected with his mom and was starting to heal their relationship, but she died before they were able to fully do that. And the thing is, he went through that. Two weeks after that happened were the regional finals in North America and he played through it. And like, God, I was watching this stream choking up. Right before that game, right after that game, you can just hear the entire crowd in that stadium, just shout, “Doublelift. Doublelift.” And it was just like, wow. That’s that.
I think there’s this huge part of…all the Asian video gamers have this relationship with their mom. I’ll say that. Like I will be on call, I will hear my friend’s mom literally say something like, “Don’t call me bro.” You could ask east Asian men if they’ve played league of legends and most of them will say yes. I think every single one of them who has this relationship with gaming and their mom play this game to fit in and find community. They actually find a lot of other Asian kids who are doing the same thing. Playing this game is an escape like I said before, from like the strict expectations of their parents.
And their parents desperately want to stop. And there’s this constant tug of war of, “Stop, stop, stop, stop.” And they go like, “I’m doing fine. I’m doing fine. I’m doing fine.” There’s also these more intricate interactions. One friend, Yusuf, talked about me about how lots immigrant kids to try to confuse their moms with technology and say something like, “Oh our grades are on the student portal, go check it,” That’s the only thing that they can leverage against their very smart, very cunning parents. They have this knowledge of the online world and they can use it to confuse. There are just so many parts of this, but I think I foiund a synthesizing thought.
Anisha (she/her):
Go off if you have to.
Jason (they/he):
I guess at its core, when it comes to gaming and immigration, you play this game to escape your parents because they want the world out of you. Sometimes you just want to go into something where you can feel like you’re progressing, you can feel like you’re powerful, you can feel like you have friends, because you definitely don’t in school if all you’re doing is doing tests. There’s just so many things that help this online world, both in terms of a social world and in terms of immersion and escape, make you powerful in a sense. There’s so many things that make the online and gaming world attractive to children of immigrants. And there are so many children of immigrants that play. And I will say immigrants too. It’s just alluring, it’s new, and it makes you feel like a person when the world doesn’t.
Anisha (she/her):
Well said. Well said. And also thank you for making me cry at nine o’clock in the morning-
Jason (they/he):
This is normal for me.
Anisha (she/her):
That was very touching. Thank you so much for sharing.
Quinn (they/he):
I can totally understand why your friend wrote an essay tracking Albert’s experience as a gay gamer. You could write so many essays about what you just said and about the play as a whole. I really appreciate everything you just said and also for the very emotional gaming background too. I guess the next question is for both of you. I was just interested, what was it like to see your play move into a physical space. What was that process as a writer and then also as a set designer?
Sally (they/she/he):
Well, for me, Jason sent me like… 50 different versions of this play in the past two years that they’ve been writing it. Reading through all the different versions, I think the one thing that I kept thinking about was projections, really fun lighting, and this idea of solitude. I kept thinking about that. When I saw that they were thinking about a modular set design, especially with cardboard and stuff like that, I had this idea that the cardboard boxes were a bit like pixels. They would move and shift with every iteration. For me, even though I thought of it as such a high budget play being portrayed with such low tech, it was still really endearing when you think about the meeting of cardboard boxes and play. In both the digital and real worlds, we play into ideas of what our parents want and also play into ideas of how we should behave in school and to our friends and stuff like that. It made a lot of sense. Seeing this play move from just words that…I still cry when I think about it. The visuals…and everyone coming together I thought was really heartwarming.
Jason (they/he):
It was very, very heartwarming. I think the main thing tying together this experience for me is the amount of respect other people have shown in bringing this work to life. Not to discredit the many, many, people that have feedback for my play and who have given me such amazing affirmations throughout these years, but I’ve always felt that my work has not been respected, especially at NYU. I will be in a playwriting class and when I present my work, the white people in the room will turn their cameras off on Zoom because they don’t know how to interact with it. Or people will not know how to approach this work because it just like belongs to a culture other than theirs. For the longest time, I’ve just felt so undervalued and that no one would pay attention to me.
I started to have this bitterness, I had to fight for everything…I have to make people turn their heads. So I was getting really bitter and, in a really unhealthy way, just feeling that I have to fight for my voice to be heard in every single kind of space. I have this baseline expectation that no one will listen to me because of how this curriculum is structured and because all the playwriting teachers are white, but then to have my work…
I was so pessimistic going into this that the Asian people would not be there, that noone would want to work on this. But then to be met with an amazingly large and diverse team and for my work to be handled like that, with an insane amount of respect, it’s just like, wow, that was … Throughout those years, I guess I was getting something done. I was heading in a right direction. I was doing something right. It’s very, very affirming. Shout out to all those collaborators and to the level of communication on this project because people were so invested, facilitated by our amazing stage manager Tatiana. We had so many amazing artistic conversations that really just showed how much people cared to me. I think like one really, really big thing coming out of this project is a newfound confidence in myself. Also shout out to director Jonathan.
Sally (they/she/he).:
Literally the entire cast and crew felt like family and it was so … I just felt like even if I worked on it in-person for maybe a week or two, I felt so connected to everyone, they were so sweet. Everyone was so dedicated.
Anisha (she/her).:
Oh my God. That’s so heartwarming. I feel like when I hear stories about spaces where there isn’t a strong sense of like community, it’s usually the opposite where it’s like, “I felt very left out. I was running and putting things together, but I didn’t really talk to anyone.” So I am relieved. You guys actually built a little community so, shout out to you two.
Honestly, shout out to you guys for like really carving out spaces for others…because especially as people of color, just navigating the space as belonging to a marginalized community, it can be so, so difficult. I’m also getting emotional again, so don’t mind me if I start crying. But that’s something that hits home to me, but it’s just so inspiring to see you guys. Really just carry on as a force to be reckoned with in this space. You guys are really making movements and it’s just really amazing to see. Applause to you guys. I think that’s amazing.
Jason (they/he):
In many ways, this thing went so fluently. I have had many bad collaboration scares and that just made this one so good. In many ways, I feel like we proved a lot of people wrong and we subverted a lot of expectations going into this. Now people know what we can do. People are treating us differently and it’s a big culture shock. I’m really, really proud of this. My ego is not normally this high, but we really subverted every narrative about us.
People are coming into this process with really similar stories to mine, about never feeling seen or appreciated for their talents in their cohorts throughout their arts education. Then this happens and they get to see just how wonderful their community (and themselves) can be when they are supported. And they have the support that has been denied to them for so many years.
Anisha (she/her):
Obviously I wasn’t there when you guys were doing this, but just hearing about it, you can see the love and appreciation you have for the project and the rest of the team as well. It’s really a shining through. I think that’s really important to build a community within a community sometimes because it can be so isolating. It can be very much like… you think you might have to diverge past a little bit. You’re like, “Maybe this isn’t the right field for me.” I don’t know if you guys ever thought that, but I did at some point.
And so when you see that community come together, you’re like, “Oh wait, no. I got this, we got this.” It’s very inspiring. Thank you both for being very vulnerable and sharing those parts. I definitely really appreciate it and we really appreciate it in general. We touched on the art and all this stuff. Sally, you also touched on this. We both really enjoyed your art and I really love the idea of the whole like pixels moving.
It’s so crazy because like, I don’t know, Quinn if you also have this thought, but I had the thought. I was like, “Oh this reminds me of something, but I can’t quite put the puzzle pieces together,” and then you said “ it’s like how pixels movie.” And, that’s exactly what I was thinking I just literally could not find the words to describe it. It’s really cool. We both really enjoyed your art and we would love to hear about what it is like for you in terms of intersecting, like that storytelling aspect with the visual, narratives and how that all comes together. Also I think you mentioned, if I’m not mistaken, you worked in different mediums of art as well, but how does that also relate to the whole experience? And once again, loads of questions so we can take that in parts.
Sally (they/she/he):
I’ve always been drawn to visual art and storytelling because growing up, I was the youngest child, and youngest daughter of a family of immigrants. My brothers are 4-5 years older than me, and they’d be gaming together, going to school together, doing big things and I’d be stuck in this gender role of, “Oh, you’re not allowed to do those things. You can’t get addicted to games like they are, and you can just read books and watch cartoons.” For the limited amount of time that I was able to game with them or watch cartoons with them, especially with things like in the more sort of like Asian, especially east Asian sense of anime and manga, I was able to see more stories like mine with people that looked like me like Crayon Shin-chan and Chibi Maruko-chan.
Growing up with those was really important especially because I wasn’t allowed much screen time. Reading a lot, getting immersed into those worlds through children’s books especially because it was the first time that I really encountered stories that were meant to uplift me even if the characters didn’t look like me yet. Shout out to Eyes that Kiss in the Corners Oh my gosh…
Coming from that perspective of being really inspired by children’s books and wanting to get into them since I was literally five and since I figured out how to draw, because I only thought writing was an option, I guess it was always my preferred medium and storytelling and adding words to that really came naturally. So sorry, what was the rest of the question?
Anisha (she/her).:
Totally good. The intersection between storytelling and visual narratives and different mediums and stuff like that.
Sally (they/she/he):
I guess I always stuck to almost the cheapest materials I could find because growing up in an immigrant family, there wasn’t really much, and art materials were so expensive. At the time, I didn’t feel like my art was worth investing so much into especially as I was still a kid and I was still practicing and we couldn’t afford any art classes. I treated it as a hobby and I just practiced and poured my soul into it, even if it was just pencil and paper.
And then when I was 14, my brothers chipped to buy me a Wacum tablet that I’ve been using ever since. I asked for that specifically because digital art is so much more accessible than other mediums in a way that you don’t have to keep paying for paints and brushes and things that break down, like a canvas, you could just keep using the same tablet as you were seven years ago.
All the colors are there, really everything is there. That’s all you really need. That’s what I’ve been using since really. And as for other mediums, I do ceramics, I do soft sculpture, I do animation stuff like that. All that has been as I’ve grown more confident in storytelling and my skills, technical skills as an artist where I’m more willing to invest in it especially as I…Well that confidence only really came to be as I started applying to art schools and college. I really hadn’t invested a whole lot before then, but I do think that everything comes down to storytelling. It doesn’t really matter if it’s visual or just writing, I think that stories are just really important.
Quinn (they/he):
I wanted to just say, both Anisha and I looking forward to what’s next and definitely looking forward the eventual Broadway production. But I also just wanted to say, I feel like I’m a big believer in art as a space where power and hierarchy can be subverted and where community and lifting each other up is really important. So I just wanted to echo what Anisha said earlier, thank you for being so vulnerable about talking about this process and everything. But anyways, I have another two- part question for you, Sally. I know that you talked about your thesis earlier, I’d love to hear some about that and just that process of working on a long term project and how that has been for you?
Sally (they/she/he).:
My thesis is titled One Day the Sun Won’t Be Wounded and it’s a growing collection of originally written and illustrated poems of about Chinese mythologies, dieties, spiritualism, family history, queerness, transness, and myself. Showing up for thesis, we started like five years in, no, my gosh, five weeks into our first semester, at the time I was incredibly burnt out. I had this whole grand plan of last year thinking about like, “Oh, I’m going to make this super cool, illustrated chapbook” and also I was thinking of an accordion book and that it would be huge and at least 30 pages or something like that. I thought I planned out all the subject matter that I was going to tackle. But when it came down to it, that first semester I was so burnt out that I couldn’t get anything out of me really other than one piece, the first one.
And I guess it was mostly a process of trying to find compassion for yourself, especially in a world that’s so capitalistic and it’s so driven by productivity. I was punishing myself every single time. I couldn’t start every week where it was like, “Come on, just write some things,” or like, “Just like dress sketch. It’s not that hard. You could do it if you like.” You felt the pressure too and yet nothing was coming out. And because of that cycle of like, “Oh, you have to do something.” And yet, I’m not allowing myself to do anything enjoyable until I start and being paralyzed. And that was difficult to get out of, but then when winter break came and January came, I was able to let go of that a little bit and also be more motivated by seeing what other people were creating in class and being able to let go and play Stardew Valley for a while was exactly what I needed and so I just started thinking of like, “Who cares, it’s thesis, not like it’s the last project that I’m ever going to do.”
And that was what my professor said too. Like, don’t take yourself too seriously. It’s not your last thing. Sure, it’s bigger than any other project that you’ve done, but that’s not the end all of your career. I just took it step by step and drew out. I saw it as a work in progress and something that I’m proud of rather than something that is more of a punishment in trying to prove myself to people that aren’t particularly my audience.
Quinn (they/he):
I’ve been working on my thesis too for the past year and so I get the struggle. I guess that’s something that has to come out of me at some point. For the last question, we’d like to open it up to both of you again, and we were wondering, what advice would you give to aspiring artists and playwrights and what would you have liked to hear when you started working on untitled gamer play? I’m sure it’s a lot.
Jason (they/he):
Do you have an answer Sally?
Sally (they/she/he):
You can start.
Jason (they/he):
I got it. I would say at the beginning of this process, I wish I knew that my problems were big. For example, we Asian artists have executive dysfunction as evidenced by everything I just said. We have a very poor relationship with our work, especially creative work because of the anxieties passed down to us. And I think I belittled myself a lot for not being able to write. I wish I had more compassion for myself and knowledge that the artists that are able to work through this create even stronger art stronger, what does that mean?
Our executive dysfunction problems are big, treat them like big problems and when you get to overcome them, give yourself a bigger reward. What I like to say to people is: you’re up against a final boss, not just another slime. And a word of advice would be on that related note, you need a hype squad if you are a writer from a marginalized background, and people will be like, “Ah, you don’t need validation.” But you need validation, it’s human, it’s one of your needs. Belittling that need is belittling yourself. Yes. Many people will make you feel like you’re nothing. Especially for Asian artists, they will reduce you to being proficient or uncommunicative or rude. And a lot of things will eat away at you and you deserve having a community that will vocally support you often to just keep you afloat and keep you writing.
Sally (they/she/he).:
I totally agree with that. I would say trust in yourself and also trust in your community and rely on community, support your community because they’re the ones who are always going to be there for you too. Especially with illustration and writing, of course, these are usually really solitary acts and you usually do them alone. It’s like, oftentimes you really don’t feel that support unless it’s right in front of you and you’re going after it to talk to people and hear each other’s voices, sometimes you really don’t feel like that support is real. It’s just like, again, like pixels on a screen doesn’t really mean anything to you, does it have any value? But working on things like untitled gamer play and being in a team environment, you really can see how the emotions that you put into the play reflect through how everyone else is experiencing it and the care that they have for you and your work is also the same care that you offer to other people.
And that’s what really keeps everyone creating things and building things and trying to make a better future for everyone I think. That’s the big goal, I guess. We’ve all started writing stories based and we wanted to hear ourselves and see ourselves in our communities represented. And so I feel like supporting each other is just one other aspect of being an artist.
Anisha (she/her):
Oh my God. I love. Sorry. I think you were going to say something. I just …
Quinn (they/he):
No, I was just going to say the same exact thing. Thank you so much you guys. This has been so wonderful and I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and-
Jason (they/he):
I found out a future project.
Quinn (they/he):
Yes, please.
Anisha (she/her):
Oh my God.
Jason (they/he):
On June 11th, 2022, I will be performing and Sally will be costume designing for untitled waifu play. It is directed by Jonathan and the playwright is Char Nakashima-Conway, who I love with my entire heart and who inspired this playwriting journey in me of writing for small groups of people that have never been seen before. Come see it, it’s about incels who materialize their anime wife into real life and try to go on dates with them and we’ll see how that goes.
Anisha (she/her):
That’s so interesting. Oh my God. Well, thank you for that. If I can make it, I probably will. Try to start my schedule out. But no, that sounds amazing. I see the gaming thread there, which is also really just enlightening, like I’ve said a million times, but that’s honestly how I’ve been feeling. But thank you guys so much. It has been such a pleasure, like Quinn said, just to have this conversation. Thank you for being so open and vulnerable with the entire process and also being very transparent because I think that a lot of times people, especially when they come on platforms, they’re like, “Yeah, it was a wonderful ride.” And you’re like, “Okay, it was, but let’s be real. It was a struggle to get to this point.”
Really appreciate your transparency and your honesty throughout the entire thing. You guys did a phenomenal job with the play and bringing it to life. It was really, really eye opening. And I think that these stories, like you said, they need to be materialized a lot more and just brought to a lot of different audiences. Really appreciate you guys bringing it to the New Absurdist audience as well. Really look forward to sharing your stories. We’ll be in contact about the whole process of things like that and once it gets posted and all that stuff, but honestly, thank you guys so, so much. I know it’s bright and early on this gloomy morning, so really appreciate you guys plowing through and being the resilient people that you guys are. Really appreciate more power to you and honestly look forward to seeing the amazing work that you guys continue to put out.
Jason (they/he):
Thank you both.
Sally (they/she):
Thank you so much for your time.
Anisha (she/her):
No, of course. Thank you guys.
